#just saying that the teen wolf parallels can apply to both characters

[pinkeoni]

Will Byers, Coming of Age, Transformations, Predators, Queerness & Teen Wolf

There’s one part of the “leaks” that sappicjopper put out that really caught my attention—

And as to not look naïve, yes I am highly aware that these “leaks” are likely fake. However, disregarding the legitimacy of this as a “leak,” it is in itself a compelling idea that does have some legs to stand on as a theory.

So awhile ago I made a post about Will’s coming of age story and how that fits into the horror genre, and how exploring coming of age and sexual awakening through the supernatural is a popular trope.

I wanna point out three films I use in my analysis, Ginger Snaps, Jennifer’s Body, and Black Swan. These films have a lot of things in common, but one aspect I want to point out is there use of physical transformation.

These transformations covers an umbrella of different themes depending on the character, but something that all three of them have in common is sexuality. As all of these women become more sexually liberated, and thereby seen as dangerous by those around them, they fall deeper into these physical transformations. (IE Jennifer and Ginger both eating men after they have sex with them)

In my original post I also discuss how this fear of sexuality, or view of sexuality as something monstrous and predatory, is related to queerness. Both Jennifer Check and Nina Sayers are visibly queer characters in both their respective films.

So what? All of this is very speculative, how do I know that Will is going to go through a similar arc, just because I can relate him to a few movies that I like personally? How do I know that the Duffer’s are going to do something similar? Is there reference to a movie within in the show, that features transformation as an allegory for coming of age and queerness?

Actually, there is.

All credits goes to @chirpsythismorning for their deep dive post into the shows use of the film Teen Wolf, which appears in the show as one of Rick Conroy’s recent rentals as well as the poster in the background of a few shots.

(screenshot credits to @chirpsythismorning)

The Freddy Krueger standee, the character who kills people in their dreams whose actor makes a cameo in the show, positioned right over Max’s shoulder should be enough to say that the film references in the background are a lot more than just meaningless references.

Teen Wolf is a 1985 supernatural coming of age movie about a teen named Scott who learns that he is a werewolf.

Within s4 we actually get some parallels between the film and Lucas’ arc— Scott is a basketball player who seeks popularity before embracing who he is and what he really wants. However, I think it’s possible that the film could also be a piece of foreshadowing for Will’s arc in s5.

While Scott is not an explicitly queer character, there is some coding within the film that correlates his lycanthropy with queerness. Remember this is a mainstream teen movie from the 1980’s, if there’s going to be any queerness it’s gonna have to come from subtext, although it is pretty unsubtle.

There’s this very heavy handed scene where Scott confesses to Stiles that he’s a werewolf, and Stiles believes that Scott is coming out to him initially.

There’s also this conversation Scott has with his father that can be read as queer coded.

Or essentially saying, being queer isn’t easy, but it’s not bad either. And then Scott equating his queerness with being a predator, and expects to be hunted as such.

When Scott goes through his first full transformation, it’s right after he played a game of two minutes in heaven with his childhood friend Boof, equating sexuality with his beastlihood.

In s4, there’s a big emphasis on the word predator.

Will’s queerness is an open secret in a town that believed he was “killed by some other queer” and that a group of satanic sodomizers are responsible for murder. I’m willing to bet that that predator label is going to be put onto Will, especially as he begins to come more into his own sexuality.

What would be a literal way to portray this predator title? By having him transform into a predatory creature, just as everyone sees him.

Am I saying Will is going to become a werewolf? Well no, that wouldn’t really make sense with the show. But there is something that may have even been foreshadowed in the show.

How would this transformation even happen? Well, as our “leaker,” or rather, enthusiastic theorist suggests, it has something to do with his connection to the Upside Down, which is progressively leaking more and more into Hawkins. So not a literal zombie, but maybe a zombie like creature that could survive in the Upside Down.

When Vecna was sent through the gate to the UD we saw him go through a physical transformation as he adapted to his environment. This would he a like a speedrun version of that amplified by Will’s own personal connection to the UD (which I believe predates his kidnapping)

It would also serve as a way to highlight the parallels between Vecna and Will, what by having Will physically become similar to him. What better way to show the Vecna/Will mirrors by having Will look in the mirror and see the spitting image of Vecna staring back at him.

Bonus: Scott in Teen Wolf in played by Michael J. Fox, and which character was dressed similarly to a popular Michael J. Fox character in season one?

[halekingsourwolf]

1/9 So this started as a joke & then it fit until it didn't & now I don't know what to do so I'm sending it to you. You don't have to answer it if you don't want to, just take it as a fun (?) ramble. This'll probably be long, sorry. So I was in this conversation about how Teen Wolf missed out on having a big bad. The series long villain. And I made the joke "Well, they could've always stolen from Harry Potter, if they'd wanted to". And then I started thinking about it, if Teen Wolf *had* stolen

from Harry Potter how would that've worked out?

Hey anon! Since this is long, I’m gonna be breaking your ask down and responding to the individual pieces instead of trying to respond to it all at once at the end. Your parts will be bolded and mine won’t be.

First off, I think this is a really fun idea, I love thinking about how characters would fit in other situations. This will be extra tricky, though, since we’re trying to not only parallel characters but also individual season arcs to each of the books. I think what we’re going to end up with, probably, is a lot of elements that we can say connect (this situation is like that situation, this character is similar to that other character in some way) but might not really tie into a coherent narrative on its own. If we want to, we can look at it again later to see how TW could work if it broke more from its own structure and just became more of a loose Harry Potter AU, but for this one I’m mostly just going to focus on similarities and differences.

 Let’s see how we do!

One problem is how you would count the seasons. Are seasons 3A&B 1 season or 2? Either way it doesn't fit. You either end up with 6 seasons and 7 books or with 9 seasons and 7 books. So I took the first option, which leaves me 1 season short. But if TW *had* stolen from HP maybe they would've been more successfull *shrug*. So in the 1st book (very, very roughly summarised) the hero goes against the severely weakened big bad who (we later find 3/9 out) put the hero in this position in the 1st place. When applied to TW season 1 you get: Peter. (Sorry Peter fans, I like him too but for this ramble he's gonna be our big bad.)

There are definitely some fun parallels here. 

We start off with Scott, a slightly awkward and out of place teen, definitely more optimistic than Harry but also in a better place physically than Harry, until one day he’s attacked by a crazed, half-feral Alpha werewolf (just as Harry was attacked by Voldemort, albeit earlier) and is introduced to the supernatural world. This attack, we’ll eventually learn, starts our hero down the path toward becoming a Super Special Chosen One/”True Alpha.” If neither of them had been attacked, chosen, by the Big Bad, this wouldn’t have happened). Scott’s skeptical at first, to say the least, but he’s introduced to new mentors and learns how to start harnessing his new abilities.

Throughout this, Scott seems to have a mysterious connection to the unseen enemy, shown in flashes of headache and visions of what the Alpha is doing. Scott suspects his brooding mentor figure Derek as being the enemy, due to his harsh and closed off attitude, but eventually realizes Derek’s been doing his best to protect him (so yes, Derek’s Snape in this, at least for book one). Eventually they have a showdown with the Big Bad (Alpha Peter and Voldemort), burning him (molotov and physical contact) and seemingly destroying him for good.

(If we wanted to change things up a little at the series’ start to tie in more with HP, we could have Rafael McCall still living with Scott. Having the drunk and generally abusive father still around would pull in more parallels between Scott’s pre-magic home life and Harry’s, and once he learns to harness his abilities he could use them to shift and scare the man into shaping up or getting out.)

The 2nd book: the hero fights a phantom of the big bad, a girl gets possesed by said phantom & a big snake petrifies people. Ok, so that kinda fits. Peter is still the big bad. The only thing that would need to change in seasons 1 & 2 is that Peters resurrection *doesn't* work (that comes later). So no Peter in 4/9 season 3 (what did he do in 3A besides narrate the flashback? who would narrate it now? Cora? what did he do in 3B? show Scott how to enter Stiles mind & anything else?). 

This book/season is my favorite for parallels. 

Ginny/Lydia (both redheaded secondary characters at this point) get taken in by a shadow of the seemingly defeated Big Bad, who appears as an attractive, charismatic young man to gain their trust while insidiously taking over their minds and forcing them to do his bidding and try to resurrect him.

Meanwhile, various people in Beacon Hills are targeted and paralyzed by a snakelike creature, and the heroes make it their mission to discover the guilty party. CoS has a recurring location/theme of bathrooms, while TWs2 has a recurring theme of swimming pools. …I don’t know what to do with that, except that it popped into my head as vaguely parallel :P

There are also a few smaller parallels, like the ineffectual Dueling club Snape and Lockhart co-run, which could be paralleled to Derek’s training sessions with his new betas, and the slightly stalker-esque photographer who runs around after our heroes, snapping pictures. (Yes, poor Colin Creevey is being tied in to Matt here.)

Book 3: a person from the heros past who they think is a villain isnt, a animal is a human and later helps the big bad to life. So for 3A we have, Scotts dad and for 3B Malia? (I kinda get a laugh out of making Scotts dad Sirius, but making Malia Pettigrew? maybe if she had been a villain in TW but with how everyone hates 5/9 her now, ugh) So Peter doesn't show up in 3A&B. Allison doesn't die (yet). Kate doesn't come back. (In HP the dead *stay* dead.) I guess Malia could kidnap Derek but better to keep Mexico for the end of season 4. 

Well, you know I would have loved it if M ended up being a villain, or if there was something more complex to her story to explain all the things that don’t make sense. But... ok, that said, focusing on what actually happened in TW, we could potentially pull in Jennifer as Peter? Someone our group trusts, with a specific tie to one group member in particular, who ends up betraying them and kidnapping some of our heroes to be used in a dark ritual to gain power, there are definitely parallels there. Granted, that’s tying together books three and four, and that’s where this whole parallel starts to break down because I think there are definitely some elements from season three that fit better with book four, for example; not to mention that 3A and 3B are completely different stories with independent villains and climaxes, so trying to fit them both into PoA is just a recipe for confusion. I’m gonna put my focus on 3A, I think.

So we have Jennifer as Pettigrew, disguising herself as a friend until she’s revealed as the murderous Darach. We have our main characters’ loved ones waiting to be executed by dark magic (dementors), with Stiles, Allison, and Scott subbing in for Harry and Hermione to perform potentially dangerous magic (ice bath/time travel) to set them free.

I really want to tie Lupin in to someone but no one’s coming to mind unfortunately.

Which brings me to the next question... do I skip 3B (my favorite season) entirely, or do we try to parallel 3B to book 4? That would fix the six season/seven book problem. But for now I’m gonna stick with season 4/book 4 since that’s what you did. 

So book 4: A competition keeps the heros occupied while the big bad plots his resurrection with someone the hero thinks is on his side & in the end a "friend" dies. So deadpool (hitlist!) = turnament & Meredith is Moody? The season ends in Mexico were Peter with the help of a 6/9 Banshee, kidnapped Derek & *something* from Scott resurrects himself. Maybe Allsion dies. How would Peter resurrect with only Scott knowing? idk 

I’m going to jump in and mention that in the end of season four someone does die dramatically: Derek. And while he does revive afterward (...somehow), he leaves Beacon Hills, leaving the pack noticeably floundering and Stiles in particular moody and desperate to cling to the people he has left. So as far as s4=book 4, I think Derek holds up as a good parallel for that loss. (If we were doing 3B=book 4, Allison would be a good fit.)

The end of the season I think is the best parallel between this book and this season, since the hero is swept away to a new place unexpectedly and made part of a dark ritual. I know you mentioned not wanting Kate back, but she would make a good parallel for someone the group thought was dead (Barty Crouch Jr) who abducts the hero to complete the ritual.

Berserkers sub in for Death Eaters, and as for Peter’s resurrection... however nonsensical, Kate and Peter working together in s4 is canon. And Peter wanted Scott gone and to gain his Alpha power back (at least... I think? His motivation was so nonsensical in s4 but what else is new) so making a deal with Kate to make that happen ties together as well.

So then book 5 (here is where the stories stopped fitting & I couldn't make them either, if you have any ideas go plot): everyone but the hero thinks the big bad is still dead, the hero and the big bad are "connected", a evil teacher appears, there's a prophecy and another "ally" dies. TW season 5: doctors experiment on teenagers, Theo tries to 7/9 get Scott killed, Mason turns into a beast, Peter doesn't show up & a Nazi escapes. So yeah. I got nothing. With Peter as the big bad it could've been interesting. Nobody belives Scott that Peter is back, Peter and Scott share a pack bond, no idea about the prophecy or the teacher, Scotts dad dies? 

So just a reminder/heads up that I stopped watching the show after s4. What I know from the rest of the seasons come from other Tumblr users talking and gifs I’ve seen floating around. s5 was also another split season, meaning we can either choose one arc to parallel the book or try to blend them together into a muddy mess. The main parallel I can think of would be Stiles subbing in for Harry in this one, becoming moody and emotional after a traumatic loss (Derek), damaging his relationships with his closest friends.

Beyond that... yeah, I’m getting nothing.

So onward to book 6: the hero learns how to take the bid bads plot armour, a good guy may be a bad guy afterall & the mentor dies. TW season 6A&B: the wildhunt takes everyones memories, a 8/9 Nazi-werelion (omg) eats peoples brains, an anchient god of fear turns people into stone & Deucalion dies. (This show, I swear). So how would the new season 6A&B work? What is Peters plot armour (Hocruxes)? Does Deaton die? Who is Snape in this scenario? idk but I wish I did. What that season could've been. 

Again, I’m going off very minimal information from these seasons. The mentor dying could be Deucalion (though... again, I can’t really deal with the fact that everyone’s so cool with him now after what he did in 3A. At least Derek wasn’t around and didn’t have to deal with everyone being buddy-buddy with Erica and Boyd’s murderer. *sigh* Pushing aside my issues, I am...)

The weird fear creature could be Dementors, though they didn’t really play a role in book six (here, again, we have the issue of trying to parallel specific books to seasons instead of tying in general themes). For book six.. maybe the liquid Dumbledore drinks that’s protecting Gaunt’s ring? It makes him fearful, pulls up some bad memories from his past, and more or less paralyzes him, weakening him while he drinks it.

Since Peter’s not actually a villain at this point in the season, it’s hard to pull up a parallel to the Horcruxes for him.

Which leaves book 7: the hero (& friends) find & destroy plot armour, get some info about the mentors life & all ends in a big battle not everyone survives. This would be TW fictional 9/9 season 7 (or TV movie?): Scott finally defeats Peter (& Stiles& Derek finally kiss, ofc). There you have it, well partly. I hope this was a fun read for you. Sorry, if I bothered you with it.

Overall I found this analysis really interesting, but I do think we were battling through the problem of balance between making our own story using TW elements and HP themes, or just pulling in parallels from the existing content, which makes it hard to build a coherent story.

[heyokaooohshiny]

Speculation that turned into a Rant

watching the new clips from Wolfcon with Hoechlin and Roden. Its serious food for thought. The Sterek part of me is very very happy that Holland stepped up once more and put her Sterek shades on but I think it’s a bit much to say that writers took Sterek from the fans from Season One onwards. I look at the first season and watch the videography and say, whatevs to that. There was something in play before the fans picked up on the obvious undercurrent between Stiles and Derek. The lingering looks, camera angles, scene set up. Even advertising photos had the two characters parallel.

Originally posted by sterekgifs

Now, whatever happened with the higher ups at MTV and their obvious fear in anyone front line becoming anything other than heterosexual I agree with Roden and Hoechlin when they say they have ‘no control’ over what happens with the show. The actors, no matter how beloved by the fans, or how much they’ve invested in their character are getting PAID and are under legal contract by a large freaking company.

Know what I think? I think MTV didn’t want Sterek to happen the way it was going to happen from Season 3 onward because it would have made a statement that they either weren’t prepared to make or just plain had no interest in making for their own reasons. However as the story line was changed to incorporate female love interests for both characters, whoever it was; writers, camera crew, the actors, directors, take your pic, kept what they could of Sterek alive and canon. They just made it sneaky.

Originally posted by whatthehellbells

How? You ask. Well, we’ve all seen the lingering looks Derek and Stiles share, well add in the camera shots, the lighting, the way Stiles lingers over Derek’s initials in the library, the freaking ‘chemosignals’, even in the finale the way Derek and Stiles exchanged a glance when Scott’s sight was restored. These things are not insignificant. Not when they could have just ended up being cut out of the scene altogether.

Of course there is the Sterek baiting. But what if it wasn’t meant to be Sterek ‘baiting’ exactly. Yes we have Jeff, who I”d rather not go into because, Jeff. And he was about ratings, and bad decisions, and poor treatment of actors, and shudder worthy plot lines. But still. With no Jeff, there would be no Stiles and Derek.

This brings me to my other thought. Fans seem to be very concerned with whether or not Hoechlin is comfortable discussing Sterek in a definitive way. I mean, I for one would love to hear him say outright that yes, he would have jumped at the opportunity for a Sterek relationship on Teen Wolf but think about why Hoechlin may not be able to say something like that.

He can’t come out and say he reads Sterek fanfiction, guys. Even if he does. (Which come on, I would find it extremely hard to believe he hasn’t peeked at least once--yes I know he’s super busy but c’mon lonely hotel nights...) He can’t say that as an actor it would be a wonderful opportunity to explore a gay/bi relationship on a popular TV show, he can’t say whether or not he is actually gay/bi/whatever and fucked Colton Haynes. Because of course gay dudes that are friends automatically have to fuck each other! Especially ‘cause they’re hot. *eyeroll*

Originally posted by selly-downevanshobrien

Because look at Colton. God love that boy, Colton Haynes was true to himself and came out in public forum and now he has to fight discrimination as an actor and as a gay man. He had to spend years pretending to be something he wasn’t just to stay employed. You can’t measure a decision like that in today’s hostile world.

Originally posted by ragazzosarcastico

For actors like Tyler Hoechlin and Dylan O’Brien who are auditioning for movies like Stratton and American Assassin, can you imagine them getting the part if they were openly not heterosexual??!!

Originally posted by super-hoech

NOPE.

Tyler has the bodybuilding movie coming up. He’s playing Joe Weider. Do you think he would get the part if he was openly gay? Do you think the Director for that movie would take the chance? Joe Weider was hugely homophobic. (Yes Colton is in the movie too--but not as a Weider bro) Picture all the nope it would be if an openly gay Tyler Hoechlin applied for that part.

These young men are at the whim of the industry. We like to think they are at our whim but only insomuch as the industry likes to take our money. Give them a little break. They work hard. They try to love us even when we are bratty. They give us incredible characters like Stiles and Derek (and Jackson).

I personally never want to see anything like the dead-eyed Dylan O’Brien we got with the Jamba Juice picture. Pushing young actors to work after a serious accident like that could really have had consequences I’d rather not think about.

Yes I’m a fan-fiction writer. I obsess over these characters as much as the next person. But the actors are human. They have lives that we have no right to demand a look at. I’m eternally grateful for what they have given me. I look forward to what more they decide to share with us. So much love for them.